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Before the writing talk, here's a link to a review at SFFWorld of The Cracked Throne by Rob Bedford. He also did a review of The Skewed Throne, and mentioned me in his review of 2008 as his "Favorite Undiscovered/Overlooked Gem of 2008." He's also recently finished reading The Vacant Throne, so I hope to see a review of that up shortly as well.

It's been a week since the official release of The Vacant Throne in paperback. At this point, I don't have any report on numbers or anything, but more sales couldn't hurt. So if you haven't checked out the series, hopefully those reviews will help you make a decision to pick them up. If you have read the series, and enjoyed it, thanks! And remember you can always buy an additional copy for a friend. *grin*








In case you want to post it on your own blog or website, copy and paste this:










OK, enough with the self-pimpage. On to the writing discussion.

I've been critiquing a few things on the Online Writing Workshop for Science Fiction, Fantasy, and Horror (OWW for short) and while writing up one critique had the following revelation: the "show vs. tell" problem for beginning writers is all about confidence. Or rather, the lack of confidence.

One of the main issues that any writer deals with is the show vs. tell problem. You want to show as much as you possibly can with your writing, rather than just tell the reader what's going on. If you're showing, rather than telling, then the reader is experiencing the story along with the characters, rather than just reading about the story. There's a huge difference in how the reader is reacting to what they're reading in either case. If you're telling too much, it starts to feel like you're reading a textbook, not experiencing the lives of the characters. So showing is much more effective. This is not to say that you should show everything in your writing; there will always be some telling as well. But you want to have more showing than telling overall.

But this isn't really a post about the two, it's more about why I think beginning writers suffer from telling too much, rather than showing. And I think it's all about confidence. Here's why.

When I first started writing, I was excited and nervous, but mostly excited. So I sat down and started writing and I was happy and involved in the story and it was going to be a bestseller guaranteed, as big as Terry Brooks, and wow! where did that come from, it's so cool! Etc., etc., etc. As I wrote, I was unconsciously learning about how to write, and after a while I was consciously learning how to write by paying attention more closely to what I was reading. In any case, by the time I finished the first draft of that first book (called Sorrow and as yet unpublished) I went back to the beginning, still excited, still stoked . . .

And found out it sucked. Not just sucked. It SUCKED. Why did it suck? Because it was almost all tell. At the time, I had no clue about the whole "show vs. tell" thing. I was doing this completely on my own, with no writing group or online writing workshop or anything like that. (Yes, I'm a home-grown author for the most part.) But by the time I finished that book, I'd learned that sentences that showed events, rather than just told about the events, worked better. And I was doing all telling at the beginning.

So I started again. I still didn't know consciously about "show vs. tell." But I knew that THIS was much better than THAT. So I worked on getting more of THIS in the second draft.

And the second draft was much better. But I was still learning along the way (still on my own) and by the end I went back to the beginning . . . and it still sucked. But it didn't SUCK. It had gotten better. And what I'd learned along the way was that the more "show" there was, the better the reading experience. Still no concept of the "show vs. tell" issue though, I could just SEE that it was better and as I'd written that second draft, I'd gotten better at putting in the "show." So much better that the ending was infinitely more readable than the beginning.

And I also noticed something else. That at the beginning of that second draft, I wasn't confident enough with the show parts, so what I'd do was write a sentence that showed what I wanted . . . and then immediately follow it with a sentence that told the exact same thing. This is a stupid example, but I'd write something like: "Given a platter loaded with apples, grapes, and a strange green fruit, Ara reached for the grapes. She liked grapes." (BTW, it's incredibly hard to write a "bad" example now, because I automatically attempt to fix it while typing. I literally had to force myself to type that. With physical effort. *grin*) Anyway, what you can see in that example is that in the first sentence, having Ara reach for the grapes SHOWS us that she prefers grapes. But back then, I wouldn't have been confident enough that the sentence did the job, so I'd follow it up with the telling sentence and literally say she liked grapes. Because I wanted to make certain the reader got the point: she liked grapes. I didn't trust the first sentence to do its job enough to just leave it. I had to add that extra little tell to make certain.

Now, by the end of that second draft, I'd learned to trust the first sentence and I'd leave off the second completely. Which is why the first part of that draft sucked (but didn't SUCK) and that's why I ended up doing a third draft.

I think it's all about confidence. And trust. You have to trust the show sentences to do their job and resist the urge to make certain and put in the tell sentence aftewards. I see alot of this in what I read on OWW, and when I read a friend's work outside of the workshop as well. My usual response is that they need to cut out at least half of the words, because they're using too many of them. What I realized the other day while writing the critique is that what I really mean is that they need to cut out all of the tell and trust in the show. In the "bad" example above, you're cutting 3/20 words. In a real example, the tell is usually more than that. (Remember, I had to FORCE myself to type those 3 words.)

In any case, I did the third revision and I think I solved all of the show/tell issues at that point. I still had much more to learn about the writing process, so there was a 4th and 5th draft, but the third was the first that had any chance of being published. It caught the eye of a few agents and editors and writers who gave me good advice for the next revisions. Eventually that book might be published. I think the only reason it didn't get published is because it lacked a significant "big idea" to entice the publisher to take the risk on a new author.

So, moral of the post: trust your show. Be confident that it can do what it's meant to do without resorting to the tell just to be certain. Now go forth and write!

Date: 2009-01-13 03:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zornhau.livejournal.com
I think it's also about making your characters take turns, and writing nothing that isn't a turn (unless you really have to), if that makes sense.

Date: 2009-01-13 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlawrenceperry.livejournal.com
yes. Story as Game! One reason I love you, man.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
I'm not sure I understand what you mean exactly by a "turn". Can you clarify?

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Date: 2009-01-13 04:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hildebabble.livejournal.com
" I didn't trust the first sentence to do its job enough to just leave it. I had to add that extra little tell to make certain."

Yeah, my first novel project was rife with exactly this sort of thing.

-Erica

Date: 2009-01-14 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
And almost everyone continues to do this no matter how long they've written. I still find them in my own writing when I go back to revise.

Date: 2009-01-13 04:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] controuble.livejournal.com
I finished The Vacant Throne Sunday night but had no time to post anything yesterday. Don't really have any today, either, but wanted to let you know I enjoyed it.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Glad you enjoyed the book! If you do post a review, let me know so I don't miss it. *grin*

Date: 2009-01-13 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jl-johnson.livejournal.com
It's amazing how much we learn without realizing it. I'm afraid to go ovr some of my earlier work, just because I'm not ready yet to absorb that much suckage. :D That, and I'm still dealing with the 'show vs. tell' demon as well.

Good luck with the new release. :)

Date: 2009-01-14 06:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
The "show vs tell" demon never dies. *grin*

Date: 2009-01-21 02:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wyld-dandelyon.livejournal.com
Don't think of it as absorbing suckage, think of it as bringing what you've learned more into your conscious awareness.

I find that when I know I have a tool, I'm more likely to use it effectively. Not that I complain about the stuff that I do right, zen-style (actually, when I can get the right focus for that, it's wonderful, so "not complaining" is way beyond understatement), but, sadly, I can't rely on doing it right zen-style.

Date: 2009-01-13 04:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/
And then there's the added complication that you are sure what you've done is show, but the readers are either confused (because actually it was either too descriptive or too oblique) and you rewrite and end up back at the tell... (My besetting sin? Obscurity. My writing is full of God and Robert Browning moments.)
I've looked at the SFF OWW several times but never quite committed to signing up. On the one hand, I could use more feedback and I love to read what others are doing; on the other, well, there's the time thing and the 'oh look another way to procrastinate' thing and the 'is this sensible' thing. I'm not good at trusting my own writing (and I have shelves of How To books to prove this) and I know I'm too prone to looking for answers rather than getting on with it. And while I'm a newish pro in one sense, in fact I've been a published non-fiction writer for 22 years, so sometimes I can find it hard to find a level I feel I fit in at. How useful in your view is something like the OWW?

Date: 2009-01-13 10:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ravens-shadow.livejournal.com
I think that was more my problem rather than not doing one or the other. In school (since intermediate, maybe even as early as elementary), most if not all of my teachers would tell us to show, not tell. So I'd do both, trying to show as much as possible, but I'd either write too much that wasn't necessary, or not enough and confuse readers.

I'm still learning, so it's something I have to keep in mind even now--what's in my head and whether enough of that is on the page.

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Date: 2009-01-13 04:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tchernabyelo.livejournal.com
I can report that B&N in Burbank has several copies of "The Vacant Throne", on their "New SF&Fantasy" shelves.

What they do NOT appear to have, on the normal shelves, is any copies of "The Cracked Throne" or "The Skewed Throne". Which is not very bright of them.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Yes, this is the standard problem with series. I don't know why the bookstores don't get in at least a few copies of the first books in a series when a new book comes out. They keep saying people can always order them in, but obviously people aren't doing that, so they need to take the hint and have it readily available. Otherwise everyone just goes to Amazon and then the bookstore complain about everyone going to Amazon.

Date: 2009-01-13 04:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tchernabyelo.livejournal.com
Meanwhile, on "show vs tell" - th ebest examples of this I can quote are the books by Sparkle Hayter. I read and enjoyed all her Robin Hudson mysteries. I then got and tried to read two others of hers - Bandit Queen Boogie and Naked Brunch, IIRC - and couldn' get anywhere with either of them. It seemed very odd, that I'd so enjoyed four books and couldn't even finish the other two... and then I worked out why.

The Robin Hudson books are in first person. First person, by definition, SHOWS a certain amount (about the narrator), and it also lets you TELL a certain amount because it's still filered throuh a narrative voice. But the other books are third person. Sparkle Hayter is a journalist by trade - and the third person stuff reads like journalism. It's all factual, but there's no life to it. It's reportage.

So a good exercise in looking at the difference in showing vs telling is to change the POV around.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Yeah, different stories have different voices, and some people don't like the new voice when an author changes to a new series. This is what most authors stress about when a new series begins: will the loyal fans follow them or not?

Date: 2009-01-13 04:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jennafern.livejournal.com
Small world, I went to HS with Bedford. :-)

Congrats on the review. Ah, the good old show v. tell. Great post!

Date: 2009-01-14 06:23 pm (UTC)

Date: 2009-01-13 05:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shanrina.livejournal.com
I think you have a point about the confidence.

I also find it amusing that you wrote this post the day after I showed a bit of writing to a couple writer friends and one of them said there was too much show and not enough tell. I actually didn't completely agree and wound up rewording things a different way, but I thought it was interesting since you rarely hear that people have shown too much. Or at least I rarely do.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
I do say that some tell is necessary. But I don't think I've ever ready anything where there was TOO MUCH show.

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Date: 2009-01-13 05:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cedunkley.livejournal.com
I'm curious about OWW as well. I've so far been the learning to write on my own writer to date and have been wondering how best to branch out and get constructive feedback.

Date: 2009-01-13 06:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com
OWW is useful because you get to crit other people. That's when you start to see the common pitfalls. And then you turn around and they're in your own work and you go, "Gah! I didn't notice that before!"

And you freak out for a bit, but then you figure out how to solve it. Critting teaches a lot more than being critted.

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Date: 2009-01-13 06:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] barbarienne.livejournal.com
And it's something that authors have to watch out for, forever. (Well, some authors do.) That business was one of my major complaints with an otherwise good book by a longtime, much-published author. (My review is here (http://barbarienne.livejournal.com/114198.html).)

Part of relinquishing the "tell" is developing better techniques for the "show." The #1 reason writers seem to tell is that they don't know how to make the show work.

There's trusting the reader and there's trusting yourself (the writer). I think most beginning writers start off mistrusting the reader. ("I give it to people and they read it and don't understand it, so I need to make sure they can understand it.") Eventually they figure out that no, the responsibility is theirs. So the journeyman writer tells because he mistrusts himself. ("I'm not sure I'm making this clear. Will it be enough for the reader? I better make sure.")

And eventually the writer discovers means to show that are reliable and work with his particular style. Then he stops worrying about it quite so much and his writing becomes smoother.

"Style" becomes an ongoing issue for an experienced writer who develops and tries new things over the course of her career. Every time she writes with a different sort of narrative voice, she has to learn a whole passel of show-y techniques again, because what worked with previous books will not necessarily work with the new voice.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
I certainly agree that it never ends. I'm constantly finding them upon revision, even the second or third revision, and I'm constantly working on improving the writing.

Date: 2009-01-13 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolfsilveroak.livejournal.com
As soon as I have spare cash, I'll be picking up Cracked and Vacant.

Of course, if I sell something first, well, it'll be all that much sooner.}:P

Date: 2009-01-14 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
I will pray for spare cash. *grin*

But a sale would be good, too.

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Date: 2009-01-13 11:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hkneale.livejournal.com
We're always telling apprentice writers to "show, not tell". Oh dear. We're being guilty ourselves in that we tell them that advice, but your example of Ara and the grapes shows us what you mean.

I think apprentices don't know that they're telling-not-showing because they aren't consciously aware of what sort of details/sentence constructions/etc, but when they are pointed out, they know what to look for and their writing improves.

After all, nobody deliberately sets out to be a bad writer.

Date: 2009-01-14 06:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
The problem is that it's impossible to show apprentices all of the different types of ways to show something, rather than tell it. That's where the writing comes into play. You have to experiment as you write to see what works and what doesn't.

Date: 2009-01-14 02:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kelly-swails.livejournal.com
I find those little "she liked grapes" bits sprinkled in my first draft every now and again. And you're right, it's all about confidence: "do you know what I mean? Really?"

Date: 2009-01-14 06:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
I certainly still find them during my own revisions. It's a constant battle.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2009-01-14 06:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Dr. Writing has just finished being Dr. Mathematician for the day and is out of the office. *grin*

Getting across mental state without telling it is hard. Even in your example of what you'd put in the book, you've told us her mental state rather than shown it. But that sentence can easily be made into a show statement by simply having her actually taste the grape and describing that, rather than saying she could taste. "She moaned as she bit into the grape, the sweet, somewhat bitter juice dribbling down her chin." Or something. I think the best way to show mental state is in the form of actions.

Confidence...Dry and insecure

Date: 2009-01-14 05:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] robb625.livejournal.com
Thanks for the linkage!

As for writing, it really is all about confidence and trust, isn't it? You're right, making that connection with the reader is the ultimate goal. Either on a character level or story level, something just needs to click.

You've got to distance yourself from your work in order to get a better perspective, isn't that what a lot of successful writers say?

Small world indeed.

Re: Confidence...Dry and insecure

Date: 2009-01-14 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
No problem.

Distance is necessary. I'm fretting about the fact that my editor hasn't gotten back to me about the new book yet, but I know that when she does, I'll have enough distance to be able to actually see the book as it is, not how I remember it (or thought it was).

COINCIDENTALLY...

Date: 2009-01-14 11:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vespican.livejournal.com
Anne Mini is running an extensive series of posts dealing with reasons agents reject submissions on the first page. She is working from a list of 76 or so goofs that can cause near instant rejection, and a scan of those posts indicates that she still hasn't covered "Show don't tell." (It's number 70 on the list!" I am thinking that other readers of you journal might want to check these posts out. The AUTHOR! AUTHOR! blog is at www.annemini.com

For my own part, and in agreement with you, I think that cutting out redundant sentences and parrying away unneeded words can help eliminate a lot of the "tell." For me, I find that I can often eliminate the final "qualifying phrase" at the end of a sentence, and in doing so, strengthen the "show" quality. Deleting unneeded words, phrases, and sentences can also help reduce the length of a manuscript and reduce the chances that one's writing will bore a potential agent or agency screener. (A bad thing, I'm told.) By way of example of what I speak of, I could probably eliminate, "or agency screener" in the earlier sentence, and the same meaning would be implied.

As to whether any particular piece of writing SUCKS, Sucks, or sucks, a writer who presented a session at last year's PNWA Conference said she gives herself permission to write "CRAP." That's her reminder that in the initial stages of the story to just get the story on paper. Then she can revise and rewrite as needed. I bring this up because some of my writer friends seem to be preoccupied with producing the perfect piece of work, the perfect first page or chapter before they move on. I think they get too bogged down that way and never progress to the rest of the story. (Here, I could probably do away with, "to the rest of the story.")

Maybe I should have posted the above on my own journal, but...

Dave

Re: COINCIDENTALLY...

Date: 2009-01-15 09:02 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Interesting. I think alot of my readers would be interested in those posts. I'll try to remember to link to it tomorrow. (If I don't, feel free to nudge me. I've got alot going on at the moment.)

Pretty much 80% of my revisions are cutting out unnecessary wordage, which of course is usually eliminating tells rather than shows.

And I certainly allow myself to write crap. I posted about that at some point, but it was awhile ago. If you don't allow yourself to write crap, I think most writers would get blocked and not write at all for long periods of time. Allowing myself to write crap is why I haven't yet (knock on wood) gotten writer's block.

Date: 2009-01-15 03:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] debmats.livejournal.com
I just finished Vacant Throne and enjoyed it very much!

I am thinking that now I'm going to have to get the series in hardback because I know the paperbacks will get re-read a lot...

Thanks!

Date: 2009-01-15 09:03 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jpsorrow.livejournal.com
Ooooo! I like readers who like hardbacks. *grin* If you have problems finding books 1 and 2 in hardback, let me know. I have some and we can certainly work something out regarding payments (I have Paypal for example). If you can find them, that's great, but I know they're getting harder and harder to locate. Let me know!

And I'm certainly glad you enjoyed Vacant Throne. Please let your friends know!

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