Writing: Men Writing Women

[jpskewedthrone]

The first panel I was on at Boskone was about Men Writing Women. Of course I was on this panel because I'm a man and yet the main character in my Throne of Amenkor series, Varis, is a woman. I did not take any notes on this panel, but figured I'd mention a few of my thoughts that were brought up (if not necessarily discussed in depth) at the panel and see what you guys have to say.

It's one of the most common questions I get during reading and Q&A sessions: Why did I decide to write from a female perspective and how do I go about doing that when I'm male?

I honestly think it's a fairly bizarre question, mostly because I honestly never even thought about it in such terms while I was writing. I still don't. Let me explain how my stories come to me:

They always come initially as a very powerful, visual image. For The Skewed Throne this was the image of the White Fire appearing on the horizon and bearing down on a port city. A young girl was on a boat in the harbor when the Fire arrived and it touched her and changed her as it passed over and through her.

That was the image. With that image, I already had a main character, Varis, and by that I mean I already knew a little about who she was. That image wasn't enough to make an entire book, but after the initial image, other images come to me, slowly, and eventually I have enough of them that I start to see the essential outline of the book. That's when I start writing in an attempt to fill in the blanks between the scenes and see who the characters are and what their story is.

What you should pick up from this regarding the Men Writing Women topic is that I have never, in my entire writing career, ever sat down and asked myself whether a character will be male or female for the purposes of the story. The characters just . . . are. They're already there, in my head, partially formed, before I sit down to write. The same is true for the story. So for me, I'm not building or creating a character; they already exist and such basic things as their gender is already there.

So that's how the characters come to me. The actual writing of the story is how I find out about the characters and (hopefully) make them come to life for the reader as well. Things change during the course of the writing, as I find out more about them. For example, that initial scene I described above doesn't actually happen that way in the book. All of the elements of it are there, but not precisely in the same way. But that's how it started.

So that answers the question of why I "chose" to write a female character: I didn't. The character chose to have me write about them, in some sense, instead.

Now, what about how I go about writing female characters when I am so obviously male? Again, the answer is likely disappointing: I didn't really think about it. When I'm writing, I don't consciously think "Oh, this is a female character, I better alter my thought process radically so I capture the essence of the female brain better." No, no, no. In fact, I don't think of writing male or female characters any differently at all. Because I don't think of the characters as BEING male or female, I think of them as just people. They're there, in a particular situation, and I ask myself what they would do in that situation, and that's what I write. Oh, sure, some things have to taken into account for different scenes. For example, at one point I have Varis crawling through a fairly narrow window in The Skewed Throne. At this point, I had to consider the fact that her breasts might become a problem. That probably wouldn't present a problem if it had been a male character. Things like that come into play while writing, but for the most part I just sink myself into their heads and write them as if they were just people, regardless of gender.

In fact, the only thing I can think of that I consciously do while writing female characters is that in a given situation I might ask myself something like WWMD? "What would my mom do here?" Or perhaps a female friend, such as pbray or something. And then I'm only asking myself that question to see if the answer is any different from what I might do.

In any case, that's the extent of my thought process on writing "against my gender". I don't think about it much. Not to the extent that (apparently) many people do anyway. What about you guys? Any thoughts on writing against gender? What about female writers writing men? Is there a significant difference either way?

Comments

[lagilman]

? Any thoughts on writing against gender? What about female writers writing men?

Well, I recently had to poll my male friends about a young boy's experiences during puberty, because they're radically different in very important ways than what young girls go through (thankfully I have a few impossible-to-embarrass male friends). But mostly if I need to figure out how my character is going to react to something, I run through scenarios based on people I know/have met/have seen react to similar conditions. Doesn't matter, as you say, what their gender is, but what their personality type is.

If I need to dig deeper into something I think might be gender-influenced, then, again, I ask male friends. But I ask a bunch of them, and distill what I get into what I think is right for the character.

My .02.


(and yeah -- I've never thought "my POV character will be This Gender. They sort of show up, once the story's ready to be told. FLESH AND FIRE would have been a very different story (and different world) had Jerzy been Jerza.... )

[barbhendee.livejournal.com]

I this depends a lot on the "writer."

I know some writers who can handle the other gender very well--ususally these are writers who just see "people."

But then . . . there are writers who clearly have some issues. John Grisham seems to have a fairly low opinion of women.

And with the exception of a few characters from THE MISTS OF AVALON, Marion Zimmer Bradley seemed to have a pretty low opinion of men.

[heidi2524.livejournal.com]

I'm female and the protagonist in my first novel is male. Similar to what you described, a scene came to me and thus Adrian set off on his adventure. I did consult with my boyfriend on a few things to make sure Adrian was a believable male to a male audience, not just a female's idea of what a male should be. ;)

[sartorias.livejournal.com]

Like you, I tend to have characters show up. Eveyrone's process is different, but as soon as I try to impose anything--gender, plot occurence, whatever--the whole thing falls apart.

[green-knight.livejournal.com]

What You Said.

Different experiences abound all over the place - gender, age, background, ethnicity... if we all just wrote about worlds populated with clones of ourselves, how boring would that be?

And while it's true that you can never truly know another person, I'm still discovering things about myself...

[mizkit.livejournal.com]

I think it's our job to write believable *people*. I'm not strictly convinced it's any harder to write a believable woman if you're male or a believable man if you're female than it is to just write a believable *person*. And I mean, for God's sake, I write about (male!) gargoyles and dragons, among other things. How could anybody know if I was writing them correctly? Or wrong? :)

[barbarienne.livejournal.com]

This is the sort of question that always makes me roll my eyes. Not at you, for reasons that will be plain in a minute, but at the very idea that this could even be a question.

How does anyone create any character? Do male writers habitually think about what it means to create a male character? One might plausibly argue that "they don't have to--they already are the default (if they're white and straight)." But seriously--do straight, white, middle-class men only write about straight, white, middle-class men?

I guess in some cases, the answer to that question is "Yes."

I think part of the problem is that people feel most comfortable writing what they know. I have a lot of male friends--in the "I call them on the phone just to talk" sense of friends--so I feel perfectly comfortable writing male characters. They're not just "women without tits"--they're people.

Do I feel less comfortable writing about people of different ethnicities? Somewhat. And I think that for me, it comes down to feeling that I understand a character, and if their ethnicity is a factor, then my understanding is limited by my (lack of) experience.

About half of my friends are male; makes it easy to understand men, and know that their experiences are not very different. A smaller but not insignificant percentage of my friends are gay. Again, fairly easy to understand. Jewish people? Hell, I'm a token shiksa most of the time. But beyond that... Well, I know all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds, but most of my nearest and dearest are a lot like me: well-educated white people. The ones who aren't white have college degrees, and everyone grew up with enough food on the table.

And at the very least, even if they had bad childhoods (and I never fail to be startled by how many of my friends fall into that category), they are successful adults.

So I guess the reason this question then becomes so mind-boggling for me is that it displays an inherent failing in the asker[1]: This is someone who isn't friends with people of the other gender. When it comes to socio-ethnic differences, I can kind of understand how it happens. But no matter who you (generic "you") are, roughly 50% of everyone you come in contact with is the other gender! Are these people walking around paying no attention at all to half of everyone they interact with?


[1]

[stillnotbored.livejournal.com]

What about you guys? Any thoughts on writing against gender? What about female writers writing men? Is there a significant difference either way?

Like you, my characters just are. They show up with personalities, a history and a story that needs telling. I see them as fully formed humans, with flaws and good points, wishes and fears. I know them as people and gender never comes into it. The characters have that all sorted out before they arrive. I don't have an issue writing against gender, men are as easy as women.

There are a lot of writers who don't write the way you and I do. They sit down and decide they need a certain type of character to fill a role in a novel, and then pick gender, personality traits, etc. and make them fit. I've known writers who have long lists of hair and eye color, likes and dislikes on character sheets and fit their characters together like a puzzle.

My guess is that some of those writers, not all!, might have more difficulty writing against gender because they view their characters as constructs to fill a role, not as people.

[vcmorris.livejournal.com]

As an erotica writer I do have to take into consideration the physical differences in my male and female characters. As a female, I can write female without any guidance, but when I write males, I have been known to consult with men about various mechanisms and physical feelings. Just part of the research.

As far as their personalities are concerned, I really don't pay gender much attention unless it's a historic piece. Men and women behaved differently in 1860 than they do today, so I have to keep in mind those cultural differences to portray them accurately. I do have some strong female characters in my Victorian era work and it is brought up how different her behavior is compared to her more traditional peers. Otherwise, she is who she is.

Like you said, it's not so much my reating the characters. It's more like they say, "Hey, writer lady, look over here. I got something interesting to tell/show you about myself."

[jeanhuets.livejournal.com]

We're all human (or created by humans, if we're talking about characters) but in this world gender is the first "great divide", not race, age, class, etc. Gender plays a fundamental role in forming the place we take in the world. Obviously, there are endless variations; I'm not saying that we're stuck with female or male types. But even if someone is breaking out of a gender role, that push is part of their character. If a writer creates a world with 3.5 genders or a world in which all are truly equal, that's a similar push.

I write both male and female characters, and I pay a lot of attention to gender. Sometimes I do have to push my mind into a different place to capture, for example, the way a straight guy might move from contempt to love toward a woman. I honestly think the process is different for men and women. Not in every way, but our physical if not mental wiring is different. Ignoring that, for me, would mean ignoring a vital part of the character.

Are men and women fundamentally the same? or are we fundamentally different? Both? I don't know. I don't understand men or women! Writing is a way for me to head toward understanding, though. If I write a plausible character that people identify with, maybe I've gotten somewhere.

[agilebrit.livejournal.com]

I'm female. Most of my protagonists are male. This may be a construct of me reading "boy books" when I was a kid and imprinting on them (preferred the Hardy Boys to Nancy Drew), or it might just be that I'm a lot more comfortable around men than I am with women. But the characters are the characters and they fill whatever niche they need to fill in the narrative.

[arhyalon.livejournal.com]

First of all, I think it's really neat that you are blogging on your panel topics. I like that idea so much, I might try it after my next convention. It's just a clever idea!

Second: I am with you. I don't feel that a writer necessarily writes one gender better just because they are that gender. Sometimes we write what we know well and sometimes we write what we observe well...and sometimes it just seems natural and we write it. This question, about writing gender, is often asked by non-writers...to writers, I think it is much simpler.

That being said, I do notice that many writers get members of the other gender wrong (though many do it right, too.) Women tend to make their men too introspective. Men sometimes make their women to blunt and straightforward...but often, this doesn't really take away from one's enjoyment. I know a number of books where I don't think the author really nailed the opposite sex...but I still really like the books just fine.

[glitteringlynx.livejournal.com]

I have never, in my entire writing career, ever sat down and asked myself whether a character will be male or female for the purposes of the story. The characters just . . . are. They're already there, in my head, partially formed, before I sit down to write. The same is true for the story. So for me, I'm not building or creating a character; they already exist and such basic things as their gender is already there.

I essentially made this point before, but that is totally the case with me. The characters just "appear" (not literally, just in my mind) and start telling me or showing me their story. I don't really have control, aside from sometimes asking them questions. If one char goes into an inn, I'll see the room but I'll have to almost ask HER who she sees. Obviously she won't recognise all beings in the room (human tendency) but she will tell me what she notices. So that's what I write. It almost wouldn't matter what gender they are. Their gender is just part of their biology, not their personality.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Dark Winter has two viewpoint characters who both happen to be male. Like you (and like your earlier comments/question about "writing the 'Other',") I do not generally stop and say, "What gender should this character be?" The character generally springs, like Athena, from my head fully formed. Oh, I generally learn more about them as I write their story, but physical things, like male/female, short/tall, etc, those I know from the beginning.
Lois McMaster Bujold won a shelful of awards (or a necklace full!) writing from the point of view of a male character.

What it boils down to, I think, is the human perspective: we've all got it. And to me, part of being a writer is the ability to put ourselves in another person's head, another person's experience. Have any of us ever had our houses picked up by a tornado, carried across the Deadly Desert, and deposited in the Marvelous Land of Oz? Er, not to mention another male writer writing from a female viewpoint, or anything...

[mgsmurf.livejournal.com]

Yeah, people are people, and if you've interacted with both sexes and thought of them as simply people, then it shouldn't be that hard write either gender. Not all people think that way, for whatever reason. Plus gender is a complicated thing. I do think about it while writing, both in the world/culture I'm creating and in terms of the culture we live in.

For my novels (or novel idea) the gender of my characters so far have largely come with them. Races and ethnicity I've tweaked a little though. For my shorts, I often start with an idea not characters. So, a POV character may not come with a gender. In those cases I ask myself if the POV has to be male. If the answer is 'no,' I make the character female. I'd like to stack the deck a bit more with female characters in speculative fiction.

I'd guess it a little more likely for a female writer to write presentable male POV characters, if only because the world is largely full of a male viewpoint. But my take on the world may be influenced by the world of science, which is very based on male viewpoint and logic. And, in fan fiction I have read many a horribly written male character, a chick with a dick is just as off-putting as guys with tits.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Ah, the "Civilized Barbarian."

It's important to remember that characters are what their background has made them, and yes, gender is part of that. If your culture (be it fantasy or alien) does not see the genders as equal, or even close to -- or, as some Earth cultures, "equal but given different roles," then it is important that your character not be a raving feminist. (Or into Men's Liberation, either.) In those cases, you have to find a balance between "Men are only good for..." or "Women are only good for..." and giving your 5th C. Barbarian swordsman a worldview that comes straight out of, say, 21st C. Ottawa.

Yes, it's very possible to write women wrong. And very possible to write men wrong.

And you do need to think, not just about general culture, but specific culture, whether real or created. The hero of my current WIP (yes, male, and I am not) has a different worldview from any of the other characters, because while they come from three distinct cultures, he comes from a forth... And I did have to face the fact that gender perception in the different cultures would impact the way characters would behave.

[ceibhfhionn22.livejournal.com]

Characters just are. They usually have a definite gender. I think you just have to know a little how both genders think, and then write.

[shanrina.livejournal.com]

The only time I really worry is when there's some kind of genuine biological difference of some sort. Personality-wise, there are so many different kinds of people that I don't feel much insecurity in that department.

It's really frustrating when I come across an author who seems to have serious issues with writing one genre or the other, though.

[dynastic-queen.livejournal.com]

So that answers the question of why I "chose" to write a female character: I didn't. The character chose to have me write about them, in some sense, instead. Absolutely. As another commenter said, characters just are.

I'm comfortable writing both genders. And I have found that if I allow a male character to develop to his fullest (not MY fullest), pay attention to his unique traits, personality, and circumstances, and refer back to men I've known, I'll catch the "man" without sounding like a woman writing a man.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

"...I'll catch the "man" without sounding like a woman writing a man."

And I was just thinking, "Isn't it interesting that you never see a panel on 'Women Writing Men'?"

[dynastic-queen.livejournal.com]

I know. I've never seen one, either.

I feel they'd be helpful to folks for basic little things you might not think of. Then your characterization can naturally take care of the complex stuff. Hm.

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

Yes, there are some small differences. The funny thing is, when we think about these questions, we never stop to think, "Wait, men and women are both going to feel pain if their arm is broken. They're both going to feel confused hurt if a relationship *they* thought was going well suddenly falls apart..."

I suspect people worry that "Women Writing Men" would be considered offensive, but they never stopped to think that "Men Writing Women" might raise the same questions...

[vespican.livejournal.com]

I've read several works in which the author's gender is opposite that of the protagonist. If written in third person, I hardly notice. It does make me pay attention when someone writes in first person, placing him/herself in the mind of a person of opposite gender. I don't see any problem with it, as long as the story is intriging. Nonetheless, the first person aspect makes the gender difference much more noticable.
Dave

[jjschwabach.livejournal.com]

I think when I started reading The Skewed Throne, I realized right away that the main character was a woman (or girl, anyway.) First person is harder, but if the author does it right, it works.

[vespican.livejournal.com]

And in Joshua's case, I believe it worked beautifully. While the man writing woman in first person was noticeable at first, it didn't take me long to be totally into the story and into the heart and mind of Varis. Perhaps the initial awkwardness was not that a male had written a female protagonist from a first person viewpoint, but that I as a male reader was reading a female protagonist in the first person.
Dave